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Author Topic: 5th Generation Handling Discussion  (Read 764 times)
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LHDvtec
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« on: August 30, 2010, 04:39:46 PM »

This topic was split up, to follow the discussion these posts continues from this topic:

http://www.importknights.co.za/prelude/h22-gearbox-swaps/

=======================================================

I think it was me about two weeks back,went to fetch the car but damn I was extremely sick that day.

I just know I am going to love this vehicle once its done,I already do with the auto gearbox.

just I find the back end a bit twitchy?is that normal or its possible I am still getting use to how the car handles as compared to a civic?or is it something else?

Im itching just thinking about how much better the car is going to pull with a manual box in.

What my lude looks like;
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scholtde
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« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2010, 07:14:42 PM »

It's an awesome car, I still meet people today that ask me what car it is. Really is one of a kind.

Trust me, it is a day and night difference between manual and auto, your car will become alive Cheesy

About the rear being twitchy, it doesn't sound right. I'll always lost the front before I lost the back on the stock suspension. After the swap, do your suspension! The suspension was one of my favorite mods on the car.
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LHDvtec
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« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2010, 07:28:43 PM »

Sweet I think I definitely will however,once my swop is done I would like to feel the difference between mine and yours,just so I know if there is a suspension problem or not,hopefully at the next meet?
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jdmmonkey
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« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2010, 09:19:56 PM »

Nah Scholtde, he has a valid point on the suspension side of things. On stock suspension if you overshoot your corner and oversteer a bit too much, the natural stance tries to balance back to a straight line, I've found the Prelude to lash back into the road with a lot of weight coming from the rear.

Sounds strange but I've complained about this since day one to anyone listening.

It was however rectified when we fitted the Koni's. I simply stiffened up the back a bit to compensate for the effect.
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LHDvtec
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« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2010, 09:26:15 PM »

Exactly as Ijin explained,the back tends to lash back.
So the koni's fixed up that problem I guess that will be my next upgrade after
The swop,thanks ijin.
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jdmmonkey
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« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2010, 09:34:14 PM »

Also one more thing - I looked at a B16A clutch master, it seems identical in shape so the hole should be covered enough not to let water in cabin. Just ensure if you do happen to use one, to get Anthony to set the shaft / piston to the correct length or you'll have problems engaging and disengaging clutch.

This is why if it were possible (money wise) the OEM part is better. They are preset from factory for the correct travel and fit perfectly. The only thing you need to look out for is checking that the adjuster nut is indeed tight :-)
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LHDvtec
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« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2010, 09:37:01 PM »

Damn that's great ijin thanks man,will see who has one if not will call jhb south to buy one.
Thanks again
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scholtde
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« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2010, 10:38:22 PM »

Nah Scholtde, he has a valid point on the suspension side of things. On stock suspension if you overshoot your corner and oversteer a bit too much, the natural stance tries to balance back to a straight line, I've found the Prelude to lash back into the road with a lot of weight coming from the rear.

Sounds strange but I've complained about this since day one to anyone listening.

It was however rectified when we fitted the Koni's. I simply stiffened up the back a bit to compensate for the effect.

Ok I never actually thought the prelude can oversteer, I always only under-steered and the only way I could ever correct it was to step off the gas but my back end never came out. Maybe I'm just entering corners to slow and giving it too much gas causing it to under-steer.  Cheesy you guys perhaps just drive better lol.

Now with the LSD it is a different story, i feel so much safer  Wink

But let's start a suspension topic, we getting way off track here...
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LHDvtec
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« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2010, 05:16:55 AM »

@sholdte lol, I think a suspension topic will be great,especially for new luders like myself.
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jdmmonkey
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« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2010, 08:41:25 AM »

Topic now split ;-) here's our suspension topic.
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« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2010, 12:52:01 PM »

Ok cool, to all the luders out there or ex-luders  Cheesy with stock suspension.

Scenario #1: What happens to your car approaching a 90deg corner and you down shifted to 2nd gear and punching it, does it understeer going around it? oversteer? backside become twitchy?

My car understeered, but I must also add that my tires was at 40% thread left. 
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jdmmonkey
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« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2010, 01:11:26 PM »

Also to those who respond include tyre pressures and wheel size (as well as if you had something in the boot).

From personal experience OEM worn shocks and OEM springs,

Tyres, 205/55/16's (Stock OEM is 205/50/16's)
Tyre pressures, 2.2 bar front, 2.4 bar back (This in itself reduces understeer)
Boot filled with toolbox and spare tyre (Moves center of gravity to rear and induces more oversteer)

It's at these settings with non adjustable shocks where I experienced the lash back.
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« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2010, 01:23:06 PM »

I had OEM tires 2bar front and back with a 10" sub box with amp + OEM spare tyre in the boot.
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LHDvtec
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« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2010, 02:37:45 PM »

so I went out this morning to see exactly how my car behaves when negotiating a turn,i have +-90thread left on my goodyear rears and about 70% on my potenza re050's in front on stock 205/55/16.

the bend in question is a long swooping bend to the right,will take a pic when I can.

Approached the bend at around 100,with my civic i could take it 120 however I was being cautious about it.

and smoothly put myself into the bend and immediately found out that the problem I am having feels more like worn shocks then it does as to what Ijin has explained in an earlier post.
On turn in the body begins to roll a bit and shifts  its weight to the outer tyres,however it happens smoothly but big enough to notice that there could be a problem,will update when I get it fixed and will re-test the suspension after.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 11:58:51 AM by LHDvtec » Logged
wayneg400
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« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2010, 05:19:03 PM »

205/50/R16 0% wear and traction rating of A and AA
2.3 bar front and 2.4 bar rear
2 10 subs in boot and spare wheel and amp and emergancy kit plus tool set

and i might be excluded form the results due to 4ws will confirm

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jdmmonkey
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« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2010, 06:09:42 PM »

Your 4ws will not affect your testing at higher speeds as it would below 60kph. That said, anyone trying this properly is going to sway, so please do know how to control a car :-)

Don't want to hear that you hugged a tree!
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« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2010, 06:26:56 PM »

Hahaha wayne with your car i see this happening: check 0:56 and youll see it's also 4ws lol Cheesy

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/B-ijNzOPkIs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/B-ijNzOPkIs</a>
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jdmmonkey
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« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2010, 07:26:02 PM »

 Tongue A classic - I can't believe people - to this day think its drifting, there are plates at the back, hand brake fully up - if only they did come in rwd configuration from factory...

*sigh*
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LHDvtec
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« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2010, 11:59:44 AM »

Post edited above
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scholtde
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« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2010, 01:33:33 PM »

I think supaquick does rebound testing with a little machine, wont hurt to find out first before you replace the shocks.
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LHDvtec
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« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2010, 01:35:21 PM »

Was thinking to do a shock test first.
Will try do it this afternoon.
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wayneg400
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« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2010, 07:39:29 AM »

.. this topic went a bit dead and i wanna know what everyone found???
What else can be done to correct the oversteer I'm experiencing besides changing shocks and springs?
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wayneg400
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« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2010, 07:48:18 AM »

i found this while doing a google search:
The following steps can be taken to decrease oversteer (increase understeer):
  • increase front tire pressure
  • decrease rear tire pressure
  • smaller front tire section
  • larger rear tire section
  • more positive front wheel camber
  • more negative rear wheel camber
  • more front wheel toe in
  • more rear wheel toe out
  • more negative front wheel caster
  • stiffer front springs
  • softer rear springs
  • stiffer (heavier) front sway bar
  • softer (lighter) rear sway bar
  • more forward weight distribution
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jdmmonkey
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« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2010, 07:58:29 AM »

If you looking to reduce oversteer on the lude look at:

Increasing front spring rate.
Reducing rear spring rate.
Fit an adjustable anti roll bar front and rear (if you need help setting up I'm more than willing)
Increase rear tyre pressures a little more.

If these problems are at high speed - like 100kph+ then we start looking at downforce and rebound damping changes on your shock setup.
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« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2010, 07:58:48 AM »

You pretty much summed it up there Wayne :-)
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